Sisters of Charity of New York
Interview with Sr. Josephine Rog, SC
October 3, 2019: 9:37AM • 35:58
Angelica Bullock 00:00
Today is October 8, 2019. The interviewer is Angelica Bullock. The interviewee is Sister Josephine
Marie Rog. The interview is taking place at St. Patrick's Villa in Nanuet, New York. Okay, Sister
Josephine, can you please state your full name?
Sr. Josephine Rog 00:26
My full name is sister Josephine Maria Rog. I was born under the name of Marilyn Rog.
Angelica Bullock 00:34
What is your current age?
Sr. Josephine Rog 00:36
My current age is 79. I will be 80 in December.
Angelica Bullock 00:42
Do you remember the date that you entered the Congregation?
Sr. Josephine Rog 00:45
I entered on September 8, 1957.
Angelica Bullock 00:51
And how old were you at the time?
Sr. Josephine Rog 00:53
17.
Angelica Bullock 00:55
Roughly, how many years have you been in the Congregation?
Sr. Josephine Rog 00:59
62.
Angelica Bullock 01:02
Okay, so first, we're going to start with a little bit of general information, specifically your family life. So
can you tell me where were you born?
Sr. Josephine Rog 01:12
I was born in Brooklyn, New York.

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Angelica Bullock 01:15
And is that where you grew up?
Sr. Josephine Rog 01:17
Grew up basically, yes, for school, etc. But spent summers and many of the holidays in Connecticut
with relatives, mainly cousins, aunts and uncles.
Angelica Bullock 01:30
And could you tell us your parents name and their places of origin?
Sr. Josephine Rog 01:34
My father's name is Joseph Rog. And my father was born in Connecticut and moved to New York. In
his late teens, because of the father's work, he worked for the government and the United States Post
Office at that time, and its side work in electronics. After the end of the war, he worked at Newark
Airport, with his knowledge in electronics.
Angelica Bullock 02:14
And your mother?
Sr. Josephine Rog 02:16
My mother's name is Helen Rog, Helen Folcik, and she was really a housewife most of the years. She
did work in food service for maybe 10 years in between that.
Angelica Bullock 02:38
And do you have any siblings?
Sr. Josephine Rog 02:39
I have one brother, 6 years younger. His name is Joseph Rog.
Angelica Bullock 02:48
Do you have any family members in religious life?
Sr. Josephine Rog 02:51
I had a grand aunt and a grand uncle. The grand aunt was a sister of the Holy Family of Nazareth, a
Polish community. She spent her time between the United States and Poland. And my grand uncle was
a priest. He was basically from Poland. But he also was pastor of a parish in Pennsylvania, Immaculate
Conception or something similar to that.
Angelica Bullock 03:26
And was your grand aunt and grand uncle, were they related to your mother or your father?
Sr. Josephine Rog 03:32
The paternal side, my father.
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Angelica Bullock 03:35
Were you born into a Catholic family?
Sr. Josephine Rog 03:38
Yes.
Angelica Bullock 03:39
What parish did you belong to?
Sr. Josephine Rog 03:41
At first when I was a baby and young child, I belonged to St. Agnes Parish, Congress Street, Brooklyn.
But my life from first grade to graduation and entering the community, was St. Thomas Aquinas Church
on Fourth Avenue, Brooklyn.
Angelica Bullock 04:05
Okay, so now I'd like to talk a little bit about your education. What grammar school and high school did
you attend?
Sr. Josephine Rog 04:12
Okay, I attended the School of St. Thomas Aquinas, parish school and graduated from their eighth
grade.
Angelica Bullock 04:22
And what about high school?
Sr. Josephine Rog 04:26
I was very fortunate to be able to get into Bishop McDonnell High School, was a blessing because I
didn't have to pay tuition.
Angelica Bullock 04:36
And did the Sisters of Charity teach in that school?
Sr. Josephine Rog 04:39
Yes, they did. And that is where I met my first Sisters of Charity. If you would like a little story about that
meeting, just the idea that I had a young cousin, who was very, very sick and dying. And she was in a
Sister of Charity school in Brooklyn. I went every day so that I would relieve the mother so she could go
home and cook a meal for the father. And I met Sisters of Charity in that hospital just on a passing.
They struck me very deeply. They were very concerned, very loving with my cousin who was
unresponsive in the bed. I believe that influence definitely had an impact on me at the time, because I
was brought up in my grammar school by the Sisters of St. Joseph, Brentwood, New York. And Sisters
of Charity struck me as kindly people. And then when I was in high school, I don't know why but my
homeroom sister, a Sister of Charity, Sr. Agnes Carmita (Sheridan), worked very quickly. I arrived in
school in September. By October she had me volunteering at St. Joseph's, Willoughby Avenue, the
orphanage. Her fast working I think clinched everything. Because at St. Joseph's, I saw the sisters as

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mothers taking care of these children, loving them, washing them, taking care, feeding them in every
way. So that was my drawing card. I'm quite sure.
Angelica Bullock 06:29
Okay, so now I'd like to talk a little bit more about why you joined in when you joined. So you said you
joined when you were 17 years old?
Sr. Josephine Rog 06:41
Yes.
Angelica Bullock 06:43
And did you need permission since you are 17? How did that work?
Sr. Josephine Rog 06:48
Yes, I needed permission. But I was thinking about this a long time before. In seventh grade, I told my
mother not my father, that I would like to be a sister, and she objected to it. But she said, “Wait a while,
you have a long time to go, you will maybe choose something else.” I always wanted the medical field
and to be a doctor and my father was thrilled with that. And when he found out that I wanted to enter
religious life, he was not happy. He did not scold me or punish me in any way. He wished me to go to
Europe for a year and see how other people live, and that it might mature me a little bit and make me
maybe not want to or maybe more so want to go into religious life. I did not wish to do that. And he
accepted that not in a very happy way, but without punishing me in any way verbally or physically. And
so it worked out that was able to go. Graduated high school in June and went in September to join the
Sisters of Charity.
Angelica Bullock 08:09
Can you tell us a little bit maybe why your parents were hesitant for you to join?
Sr. Josephine Rog 08:18
Well, I think my father, as the only girl in the family and the first born, and I showed some acuity to
learning, that I would be able to be an MD (doctor). I think he was kind of set on that. And he bought
books and all kinds of things through my old high school. I did very, very well in biology because all that
I knew before I even took the class. So I think that was his disappointment.
Angelica Bullock 08:49
And can you tell me, what was the process of joining the Sisters of Charity in New York, you're 17...
Sr. Josephine Rog 08:57
Right, and since my parents didn't right out any objection, they were going along with it, both of them.
My mother was in some ways I know in her heart happy, but not happy for what she considered losing
me. But then, of course, my Sister sponsored the Sister who sent me to work at Willoughby Avenue
with the children. So quickly as I entered school, became my sponsor, and she brought me to the
Mount (Mount Saint Vincent), and we were interviewed. But the mother general at the time mother,
Mary Fuller, was not well enough for the interview. So I had to wait for her, to meet her. Now meeting

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her was a strange situation because I was working at the sale, now I'm in high school a junior year not
senior year in high school, and I was working at the big sale they had for the community at Grace
Institute, New York. And while I was working there, one of the sisters knew that I had to petition to
Mother. And my sponsor knew, she was also there. And so what they did was set up two chairs in a
room that could not be opened until after the noon hour, because it was the money room, the liquor
room, and that kind of thing. They put two chairs in between the boots of the money exchange and the
wheel, the money wheel, and that's where I had my interview. And then shortly after that, I received my
letter of acceptance so my senior year was all going to the community, basically.
Angelica Bullock 10:57
Do you remember anything that happened during the interview? Do you remember any of the questions
or do you remember how you felt? Were you nervous? Or...
Sr. Josephine Rog 11:09
Maybe the first time that I went to the assistants, I was nervous because I didn't know what was
coming, but by the time I met mother at the money wheel and the liquor booth, I did mention the money
wheel and liquor booth, I was not nervous. And the question that I remember she asked me so vividly
was, aren't you too young? And my answer, I could not believe it, I answered so quickly, “Oh, no
mother.” With all that I had done as a camp counselor at camp, at Shoreham with the children and all
that, I thought I knew everything. Little did I learn.
Angelica Bullock 11:59
We talked a little bit about your family's thoughts about becoming a sister. But did your friends ever
express how they felt about you becoming a sister at 17?
Sr. Josephine Rog 12:10
My friends were basically other children from Catholic upbringing and most of them were delighted.
They got me a little gift, a group of them pitched in and got me a beautiful, miraculous medal to wear.
So no, my friends were very happy. My aunts and uncles, some of them were not happy. Some of them
thought I was wasting my life, I had so much potential so they said, and they were not happy that I was
doing that. Most of the world My grandparents were thrilled.
Angelica Bullock 12:55
Do you want to talk a little bit about your life as a novice and your life as a postulant? Anything that
comes to mind.
Sr. Josephine Rog 13:04
Life in the novitiate, our life was very oriented. And very straightforward, do this this, at this time you did
that at that time. I was kind of the one who followed the rule, I didn't really deviate that much, or
anything that would bring anything down upon me. So I would say that it just went smoothly. I know it
was very tense. during that whole time. I know that and my tension basically came that I had to do
everything correct. Otherwise I would be sent out the door. And that was the last thing I wanted. I was
desperate to hang-in no matter what happened. So what we had to do, I did and that's it.

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Angelica Bullock 13:51
Okay. And what specifically did you have to do? Do you remember? Just like tasks or...
Sr. Josephine Rog 13:58
Yes, tasks, duties that we would be given. Silence at certain times. No running up and down the stairs
that's one of the things I always got called down for is running on the stairs because I was always go,
go, go, go go. And of course, prayer time we had to be on time, that kind of thing. You know, basically
following the rules. When the bell rang, you went to someplace. When the bell rang again you went to
someplace else. The duties were not hard. They were all physical duties that I was doing at home,
scrubbing and mopping. We never had a scrub on the floor with our knees like they say some of the
communities had to do you know, we use mops and pails and brooms and brushes. We didn't have any
of the other problems. Our food the same thing. The food was good enough, it was it ample enough,
and I didn't have any problem with that. Having to eat everything at home that was on the table no
matter whether I liked it or not, even in the years I didn't like spinach I had to drink the juice. So as a
result when I came, I was already ready to eat anything put on the table. I never had a problem. Even
the tripe soup with little fishes in it!
Angelica Bullock 15:29
Did you ever feel homesick at any point?
Sr. Josephine Rog 15:33
I have to say I missed my family. I missed our customs, especially at the holiday time because we
always were very strict with the Polish customs which were very beautiful and very meaningful. I
missed that. But I cannot say that was a sickness that was a missing of something that we did that we
are no longer doing however, in the novitiate, they had little surprises for us that made up for some of it.
As far as real homesickness goes, I would feel that because I was used to going to all relatives houses
all summer, I was away from my actual family, my mom and dad, my brother, and also the fact that I
was camp counselor summer after summer after summer for weeks on end. As a result, I also was not
with my family. So that homesickness I get over with very, very young.
Angelica Bullock 16:37
You mentioned surprises that they gave you. When you were a novice?
Sr. Josephine Rog 16:42
Yes. One of the the, I guess one of the things that most of us remember mostly, is the fact that it was it
was a surprise. They took us down to a whole big room and it was life sized creche scene of Mary and
Joseph in real clothes and the baby in real clothes, and the animals, not real, and the whole thing. And
that was something that was like just a total surprise. We were told something was coming, something
very nice was coming. But we never told what it was until we were ushered downstairs to the room they
had set up. And it just was so beautiful. It stayed with us for me up until today that it was such a
beautiful thing. And then they had a nice dinner. And we each got a little gift. I don't remember what it
was. It wasn't something big, it wasn't money that's for sure; we couldn't have money. So whatever it
was maybe a prayer card or I don't really remember, but we did get a little gift at the table. And then
there were prayer services that were very beautiful. The Chapel was fixed up ultra-beautiful and that

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was another beautiful surprise. We were given a free day around the holidays that we could walk
anywhere we wanted, go anywhere we wanted, basically within the structure of the novitiate and, you
know, be more free.
Angelica Bullock 18:22
And what would you do on your free day? Do you remember?
Sr. Josephine Rog 18:27
On that free day? Yes. You know, I guess most of us took a little bit extra time in the Chapel because
we were not, we went to our prayers, our devotions, but we never had really much time extra. So I
know I did that. I know I walked outside, which was a blessing. And when winter Christmas we're not
that freezing, you can go outside and you know, could get some good fresh air, and then talk with my
fellow novices, which we did not have much time to do.
Angelica Bullock 19:08
And how large was your circle?
Sr. Josephine Rog 19:13
Oh, we entered on September 8, '57 with 50.
Angelica Bullock 19:19
50?
Sr. Josephine Rog 19:20
50. 5, 0.
Angelica Bullock 19:21
Wow.
Sr. Josephine Rog 19:21
The next morning we woke up, one left, so we had 49 for most of the next months. Now after that, a few
left one by one, I don't recall when or how many at that time. It is in the 1960s that we lost most.
Angelica Bullock 19:47
And how did it feel to be joining with 50 or 49 or how many others, that's a lot of girls.
Sr. Josephine Rog 19:58
That;s a lot, yes.
Angelica Bullock 20:02
Did that feel more comforting to you or was that just the norm?
Sr. Josephine Rog 20:06

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It was the normal, I knew there would be many and we did not have much time to talk with each other
except at our recreation at night. And then you would be in a group and we'd be assigned group, you
get your seat so that there was not much communication between them. On a free day, you know, you
could talk to them and that was a joy, but we didn't have many of those.
Angelica Bullock 20:32
Did you know anyone that joined the same time as you?
Sr. Josephine Rog 20:37
I knew two, one was Jane Iannucelli, who was the former President, and the other was Helen, her
married name Helen Fitzpatrick; she left. Helen left, after making vows and being on mission. So she
was with us quite a few years. Both of us went to high school and graduated together and entered the
same day.
Angelica Bullock 21:05
Did they tell you beforehand that they were entering?
Sr. Josephine Rog 21:09
Yes, yes.
Angelica Bullock 21:12
And when did you finally have time to talk to the other sisters? Is that when you became a sister, an
official sister?
Sr. Josephine Rog 21:22
Yes, yes, after vows and coming on mission, we had more, you know, talking with each other. But even
then we weren't allowed to visit the Convent. So it was mostly at meetings, that kind of thing. And then,
of course, we became more friendly, like right now, three of us live here, who entered the same day.
And so now, you know, really, and one of them I lived with at St. Agatha's for many, many years. So we
are, we are friends, putting it that way. We really are.
Angelica Bullock 21:59
So how does that feel to you, be with people that you have known, most of your....
Sr. Josephine Rog 22:09
Delightful! One, getting to know her much better, Evyleen Larkin and Sheila Finucane because I've
lived with her so long at St. Agatha's, it's just nice not to have to give up that relationship and even at
St. Agatha, we really were friends, and we shared the same TV and almost the same living quarters,
because there we lived all over, all the different buildings.
Angelica Bullock 22:35
So when I think about that, you've known those two sisters for 62 years, I think in the general public
people would be surprised. Most people don't have friendships that long. So how do you feel about
that?

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Sr. Josephine Rog 22:55
I think is a very wonderful thing. However, you have to remember at the beginning, we didn't see much
of each other. But then when Sheila came to St. Agatha's, I was already there. So we got very close
together. We think the same, you know, we have same goals and that kind of thing so we really hit it off
right away. Sister Evyleen, I got to know her a lot better when she was in this house. But, while I was in
the other house, but the two houses had a lot of connection, so I got to know her better then and now
that I'm living with her, of course, I know her lot better. And it is wonderful to think of all the things we've
been through together and now we're reliving to tell it for as long as we live.
Angelica Bullock 23:55
When you entered at the age of 17 at that time was it uncommon for a 17 or 18-year-old to be
considered an adult, or were you still viewed as a child? I say that as now.
Sr. Josephine Rog 24:14
Definitely different from now. I was nine years old, I was babysitting for a newborn infant. Who would
put a newborn infant in the hands of a nine year old today. Times were different. We grew up without so
much extra things, bought things, we didn't have everything that the children have today. And so we
grew up a little older, little harsher side. Happy, happy and wonderful. Nothing wrong with it. But I think
we grew up a little bit faster.
Angelica Bullock 24:50
So when you enter at 17 that was, you were...
Sr. Josephine Rog 24:55
It was acceptable and most of the girls in our group were 17, 18, 19. There may be 2 who were a little
bit older and that was the unusual. The older ones were the unusual ones.
Angelica Bullock 25:18
How did you feel when you finally received your vows? Or, wait, I don't know the proper terminology.
How did you feel?
Sr. Josephine Rog 25:29
I really have to say that that was my goal. That's what I really wanted. Above and beyond everything
else, it was vows when Vow Day came. For me, it was such a devotional kind of thing. I think I felt
making vows in my very being as part of my own soul, because that was what I was wanting more than
anything.
Angelica Bullock 25:58
And for Vow Day, how does that work?
Sr. Josephine Rog 26:02

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Mother General, Mother Mary in my time, knelt, or maybe she sat on a chair, and we went up to a
priedieu and knelt in front of her and said our vows to her into God. Her as the head of the community,
that we were vowing our life to, and to God, who is our God.
Angelica Bullock 26:26
And did every sister say the same vows?
Sr. Josephine Rog 26:29
Yes, with their own name.
Angelica Bullock 26:31
And during Vow Day was your family there?
Sr. Josephine Rog 26:34
My mother, my father and my two grandmothers. In the novitiate, I had to get special permission to
have my grandmothers come on our visit. They were so close to me, I could not have them not come
on a visit. And my brother was at the age of 'forget it.'
Angelica Bullock 26:54
Do you remember your family's emotions during that day.
Sr. Josephine Rog 26:58
They all cried. I don't know about my father but they said my mother was sobbing. And my two
grandmothers tears were coming down fully. Both of those grandmothers were born in Poland, as well
as my grandfathers. That's why I was brought up so close to the Polish traditions.
Angelica Bullock 27:20
So for our last couple of minutes, I'd like for us to talk about your ministries.
Sr. Josephine Rog 27:26
I'm going to talk quickly. To my first mission, I was in Sacred Heart, West 51st Street, Hell's Kitchen,
very tough neighborhood. Most wonderful children, street wise, language, whoo!, etc. But, heart of gold
absolute heart of gold. I love those children. Taught first grade. Most of their families had a family
member, mother or father or both, working down in Broadway. They were either dancers or they were
theater managers or they had to do with setting-up the skits in the background and all of that for the
place. They did a lot of odd jobs. But most of them were from there and they were just very wonderful
children. Some were very bright and I sent them to the hospital down the road that had courses for
gifted children. So that was that. Okay, from there, I went to St. Agatha Home. I was a group mother for
16 boys, at one point 18 boys, and they were mostly teenagers from 12, 13 up to 16. And that was a
wonderful experience. I learned a lot from them. I learned football, I never knew about football, I learned
football and just they were rough children, rough. Because they'd been with city children. And the first
experience I had going into the cottage, was a boy down the stairs to the playroom and kept telling me I
hate nuns. I hate nuns. So I yelled out. "Oh," I said, "David, you are so funny. Come on up and join us."
I never had trouble with him again in all the years at the cottage. That was my first.

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Angelica Bullock 27:26
Can you talk a little bit about the voice the boys that you were mothering like how they got to see St.
Agatha Home.
Sr. Josephine Rog 29:35
They were court committed. They're usually a member of their family was in jail or on drugs. Possibly,
both of them had a problem. Most of them had a visitor on one Sunday a month from the city. But it was
a very cold kind of visit. They sat at the table. Basically didn't talk to each other just was there, had the
lunch we provided and then off went the parent. It was not a warm situation. A few had a warm
situation, but very, very few. They were very responsive. They were grateful for what you did. They
were mischievous. They were sexually active which was very hard. And I had a lot of night trouble. I
had to get up during the night and check because they would be with each other. The were wonderful in
sports. They liked anything I did for them extra. My aunt worked at Schwartz, if you ever remember a
Schwartz, and she would get all the cakes that they couldn't use because they were smashed or
banged or some icing taken off and she would save that for me. And the boys absolutely loved them.
Angelica Bullock 30:54
How did it feel to be their mother? Right?
Sr. Josephine Rog 30:58
I got the feeling that from the very, very beginning, knowing that I was the person who meant anything
to them in their lifetime, whether they liked me or not, I was still there. I still provided for them. I gave
them everything. I got them their food, I got people to cook it or me to cook it. It came from the kitchen
or heated up, whatever but I learned that. And after we left, I got a call from one of the boys and all he
could say is, "You're the only mother I knew in my life." And that got to me, really got to me. And others
would say the same thing not in those words.
Angelica Bullock 31:44
And how long did you work at St. Agatha Home?
Sr. Josephine Rog 31:48
I worked there in different positions from 1963 to 1982. And I worked 11 years in the cottage with the
boys. Or sometimes I was changed to girls, but whatever. Then I worked in the school on the grounds,
public school. And then I worked, a public school closed by the way so I had to change jobs. I worked in
purchasing at the home.
Angelica Bullock 32:22
And did you like your time working there through all the different jobs you had?
Sr. Josephine Rog 32:26
Very much, it was a wonderful place. None of us had an easy time because taking care of the children
was not easy. We had long walks every day, going from the cottage down to the main building for our
prayers and for our meals. We did not eat with the children. And we had to keep our own community so

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we came down to the main building. It's a long walk, sometimes very difficult in snow and cold. But
nevertheless, we were young and it was wonderful for our health to do that, so it was a plus. The sisters
were very good. We were very happy with each other. We had a lot of nice times when we get to meals
and that kind of thing. We enjoyed each other's company.
Angelica Bullock 32:59
Do you want to talk any more about ministries? Or?
Sr. Josephine Rog 33:19
Well, I could say that from St. Agatha Home. I went to the rectory at New Rochelle, St. Gabriel's. Then
from there, I could only stay there for a year I asked for a year to go there. I was granted it. I went to
Convent of Mary the Queen in Yonkers, with our senior Sisters. And I was there until my mother
needed care. So I spent about 30 years there.
Angelica Bullock 33:50
And do you remember how you felt when Mary the Queen closed?
Sr. Josephine Rog 33:56
Terrible. I didn't know what we were going to do with our Sisters. Even now, I just don't know. They're
going to different places and it's very difficult. It's part of the times, it has to be. I know that and I
understand that I'm not knocking it or blaming anybody for it. But what I do have to say I had hoped that
in our later years, we could all be together and live our community together. And of course that's not
working out. However, Kittay (nursing home, Bronx, N.Y.) and ALP (Assisted Living Program, Bronx,
N.Y.) worked out beautifully. So I'm grateful for that. And those who are in Cabrini or St. Patrick's, there
a little bit beyond that. So you know, maybe it did work out for the best but I'm still sad. And people on
the outside when they find out I'm 62 years completed. They say to me, "Are you happy you went to the
Sisters of Charity? Wouldn't you have been happy to be a doctor that you wanted to be? Wouldn't you
be happier if you got married and had children?" I don't know. Those things are not uppermost in my
mind. I'm happy I entered the Sisters of Charity. Am I happy that I entered at 17? Yes, I am. I don't
know what would have happened during those years. I don't know what kind of young men I would
meet and what we would do when all; I don't know. I may have been naive and gotten into trouble. I
don't know, I really don't. I'm very happy. I entered the year I entered and the life we live. There are ups
and downs. There are ups and downs in every life. If I had an abusive husband, I would be a wreck.
I've never had abuse in community. I know. So yes, I am happy. And certainly my prayer life has
brought me closer to our God which we're all trying to do in one way or another.
Angelica Bullock 35:53
I think that's a great way to end. Okay, thank you, Sister.

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